because forever is a long, long time, robert.

Christine DiGiacomo
10 minutes ago
6 min read

podcast: https://www.pastorwoman.net/podcast/episode/1d0c7449/because-forever-is-a-long-long-time

Remember Robert? I was at a soccer game when I heard my friend Renee's husband had suffered a heart attack and was in ICU in a nearby hospital. Though I had not met him before, I felt compelled to go and pray for him. (Didn't read that Morning Briefing? https://conta.cc/4ykH2I1) Thankfully, I was warmly received, and when he told me how scary it was, I quietly asked if he had prayed during the attack....'no,' he said, and looked down. Robert explained he had made a vow to God and had not followed through, so did not think it right then to pray to Him when he was scared for his life. Interesting, isn't it? hmmm...

Time went by and COVID hit. Our California churches were shuttered, so I took my women's Bible study group to a shopping center parking lot in San Clemente (with sweeping ocean views), and taught from the back of a Ford Raptor, flew the flag, and played uplifting worship music. Women came with their beach chairs, and as the schools were closed, they brought their children; when many jobs went remote, husbands came too.

One of those husbands? Robert.

Eventually, the world opened up again, and I was able to reschedule another Footsteps of Jesus tour to Israel. Of course, I talked about it at Bible study, and Renee really wanted to go. But Robert didn't think he was 'fit' enough to make the trip (bad back, etc.) So I met with the pair at a coffee shop in San Juan Capistrano. 'Turns out the Israel tour was not the point of the meeting.

When Renee left the table for a few minutes, Robert leaned over and told me she wanted him to go on the Jesus trip (Israel) so that he would “find God.”

Hmmm... now that was a good piece of information!

‘Ohhhhh,’ I responded, ‘and what do you think about that? What do you think about Christianity?’

In the next little while, he weighed in on 'religion'. ‘I was never really interested in the church,’ he said. (If I had a dollar for every time I have heard that! I get it—just the idea of church conjures up many negative things for folks these days: hypocritical, judgmental people top the list.)

And then I asked, 'Curious, Robert... what do you think happens when you die? Like do you think you will go to heaven?' Right then, I learned he was(is) an intelligent, reasoned individual, as Robert said something I have never heard before:

‘I have tried to live my life by the Ten Commandments,

and I figured that God would think that was good enough.’

Now that was a new one! I have been bedside at end of life for quite a few; the question of ‘what comes after this life?’ always becomes front and center. When telling me that he or she had been a good person, tried to do the right thing, no one has ever mentioned keeping the 10 commandments.1 [link to 10 Commandments at the end] That was a step up, right? A higher standard than just 'being a good person'.

While I do not have a transcript of our exact conversation, it rolled out like this—

‘So Robert, I’m curious—if keeping the 10 commandments would make you good enough to get to Heaven (that is, if you could keep them perfectly), then why was Jesus born? And more to the point, why did he have to be crucified in a brutal death?’

Not knowing, I continued. ‘After all, historical sources beyond the gospel writers tell us there was a man named Jesus who was born in Nazareth, taught around the Galilee region and did miraculous signs and wonders, so I guess you would agree on that, right?’ He did.

‘And then there were five dozen exact prophecies about Jesus Christ that were written down 500 to 700 years before Jesus was born—things like the town where he would be born, that he would ride into town on a donkey, be put to death on a cross2 (the prophecy written before the Persians had invented crucifixion; the Romans borrowed the execution style from them)

And then, ‘You know most of the disciples died as martyrs… I mean their deaths were brutal, Robert. They could have been spared if they just denounced Jesus, but they would not. Not only did they know him personally, see him die, but then those men saw Jesus after he rose from the dead. Well, and of course, word spread from there…’

‘I’m wondering what you think happens when we die . . . do you think there is a heaven, a hell?' I queried.

‘Yeah, I kinda think there is,’ Robert replied.

Friends, there is no richer conversation to be had than the one on life and death, heaven and hell, and the choice we can make while we yet live.

As for heaven and hell, we live in a day when there are so many published stories of people with near death experiences—those who have ‘died’ and crossed over, then were medically revived. And there will be more and more of these as medical science continues to advance, and the dissemination of information continues at warp speed.

‘And here's the thing, Robert, we all base live our on some sort of standard, whether we realize it or not. 'Ever think about that? I have found the Bible to be trustworthy and its claims to be true. There is the archaeological evidence that has been unearthed, naming so many people and places mentioned in Scripture—things I have seen with my own eyes in the land!’

‘That must be pretty amazing,’ he said.

‘Well yes, it is. You will see some of these things on our trip to Israel . . . but I don’t think this conversation was really meant to be about Israel after all.’

‘No, maybe not,’ he quietly said.

I mentioned the corroborating historical sources—in whose best interest it would have been to keep quiet about Jesus, but they could not and did not. And the more time goes by, the more compatible even science and the Bible are proving to be. And certainly, the Bible tells us that, in brief, God sent Jesus to die to pay the price we could not—that is, because he was perfect and we are not. But if we place our trust in him and ask forgiveness for our sins, he will forgive us and welcome us to heaven when we die.’

And then I was quiet.

After a bit, I asked what he thought about the decision people can make to follow Jesus.

‘I think I might like to do that some time,’ he said. Now I might have been willing to leave it right there, except for two things--I would be getting on an airplane to return to my new home in North Carolina, and more importantly, as he said he might like to make that decision for Christ some time, he teared up. (Something I have learned is a sure sign that the Holy Spirit is at work)

By this time, it was close to Noon and the coffee shop was buzzing.

‘Robert, I know there are a lot of people here, but who cares? We’ll likely never see these people again. Why wouldn’t you make that decision today?’ Now tears were running down his wife’s face.

And so he did. I prayed, then he prayed.

And three people cried in the middle of the coffee shop.

This time our meeting involved a heart procedure of a different sort.

Guess what? Robert did indeed go to Israel with his wife and granddaughter and daughter-in-law and me, and I had the humbling awesome privilege of baptizing all four of them in the Jordan River, right in the vicinity of where John the Baptist baptized Jesus not far from Jericho.

Does it get any better than that? I submit to you it does not.

because forever is a long time.

Have you been baptized, immersed in water, such as Jesus instructed? This past weekend, I flew to Tampa, Florida, where I had the privilege of baptizing two young people, Ces and Reid. I'm pretty sure God was smiling. See the picture below with the sun's rays resting directly on her. Only God.